Tawheed Kader – The 5×5: Personalizing Relationships at Scale

Tawheed Kader is an entrepreneur, web enthusiast, dreamer, and founder of Toutapp. 

Marketers typically think in terms of campaigns. They focus on what number touches, channels, and personalization/segmentations that they will provide.

Compare this to sales in which the focus is typically on 1 to 1 communication, door to door, and in-person communication.

Sales is evolving

As Marketing has evolved, sales is evolving too. There is:

  • less in person contact
  • increased volume of opportunities and leads
  • just can’t hire “bodies” fast enough

We have to think about what systems we can put in place to help people sell more. When thinking about systems to put in place, you also want to think about the challenges that salespersons are facing today:

  • increased volume
  • inbound leads
  • SDR Generated Opportunities
  • Recurring business, especially for SaaS companies

So how do you scale?

We focused early on with ToutApp on earning revenue, in addition to seeking funding, with our business. We did this by not just adding bodies, doing things manually, or simply relying on our gut. We automate as much as we can, and use testing or systems to determine how to make decisions. That’s how we developed our 5×5 system for contacts.

5×5 – how we make salespeople behave like mini-marketers

5×5 is the contact strategy that we use to ensure that we are communicating with our leads. A 5×5 Campaign includes:

  • 5 pre-planned templates
    • Email, tweets, linkedin messages, etc. that are pre-defined
  • 5 days/weeks/months apart
  • 5 different ways to communicate to them (email, LinkedIn, etc.).

We use the 5×5 contact strategy for all stages of our deals process, and the messaging for each stage is unique. Below is a sample of the different types of communication that we make during each stage of a 5×5 contact communication.

1 – Introduce yourself

2 – provide value

3 – offer help  

4 – engage for feedback

5 –  “The ask”

Example – we did a lot of growthhacks when we were getting started. A lot of sales people still use spreadsheets even if they have a CRM. We bought the domain spreadsheetCRM.com and setup a bunch of spreadsheets that individual sales teams can use for their own independent spreadsheets.

Each of our touches for spreadsheet CRM apply the 5×5 method for strategic touches. We generate around 20+ leads a day. Our salespersons can touch hundreds of different leads across various stages in our deals pipeline and we turn each salesperson into a mini-marketing operation with 5×5 contacts. They can process more leads, focus on the most engaged people, and close more deals

Some best practices we’ve learned:

1 – Automate when possible – you don’t have to automate everything, but do it if you can.

2 – Personalize as much as possible – pull in relevant information from your CRM

3 – Use Engagement Data to drive next steps – some people are going to bubble up to the top. These people may tell you they want to buy, go to your blog, or go to your sales team. Call them immediately.

4 – Constantly iterate and test new messaging

5 – Use LinkedIn to Research

6 – Check Glassdoor for Employee Reviews

7 – Check Indeed for Jobs/Hiring –

8 – Read their Blog

With the 5×5 method, you’re going to: scale your reps, ensure consistency in your messaging, and accelerate your overall process. Remember – don’t get lazy. You’re in sales.


Sales Hacker Conference is a meeting of top sales execs sharing the unique sales hacks they’re using to attain nine figure revenues in B2B sales. Sales Hacker Conference was held on April 24th, 2014 at SPiN in New York City.

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